Thursday, December 9, 2010
Louise vs Precious
Bored at my desk one day, I asked myself a very IMPORTANT question. PYT or Cougar? PYT or Cougar? PYT, Cougar? It’s a tough decision for some, but not so tough for me. I will take neither. I would love to have a woman that is in the same age range as me. We most likely are in same stage in our lives, we possibly have same desires, blah blah blah. Wait, maybe I’m lying. Yeeeeeaaaah, I think I am lying. I would not mind settling down with a woman my age, but its something about a younger and older woman that will always interest a man. At least interest me.
Before the women in my age group start with the dirty looks and inveigh against the movement, you guys should not be surprised when it comes to men going after younger women. Half of you ladies grew up pumping the myth that women mature earlier than men. Some of you took it a step further and even started dating older men while you were in your late teens and early twenties. So where does this leave us. Where did it leave us when we were younger? All of the superbad girls were messing with the older guys so we had to get in where we fit in. Maybe subconsciously it hurt our egos that our options were limited. I don’t know. I didn’t research this chit. Googling PYT and Cougar just didn’t feel right. Either way it goes, men are now making up for the days of the 21, 22, and 23 year olds evading them when they were 21, 22, and 23. The men are in there 30s and they are now the beneficiaries. A classic tale of history repeating itself.
But let’s not sleep on Cougars. People think they are making a come back, but I beg to differ. They’ve been around for a long time. In my hood, we’ve been calling them “Grandma Dynamites” for years. The only difference today is that they are more sophisticated, more attractive, and more “caked up” (that’s paid for those who don’t know). So with this new, improved plethora of single, older women, men’s choices have expanded exponentially. And although Viagra and Cialis are trying to make it an even playing field for men of all ages, the Cougars are still out there hunting young, fresh meat. Lol, that sounds disgusting. But unfortunately, this is the case. They have adult sons and daughters out of the house, money to share, and horniness to overcome. Most importantly, they are experienced in the game.
Contrasting the two, the final decision will be based off of where a man is in his life. But before we get to that point, let’s look at the “tale of the tape.”
PYTs: USUALLY in great shape, breasts perky, energetic and full of life, impressionable, easier to enjoin, emotional, ambitious, impatient, sassy, naïve, nymphomaniacs and a bunch of other things.
Cougars: USUALLY paid, understanding, supportive, nurturing, attractive in a Phylicia Rashad kind of way, some attractive in a Pam Grier kind of way, have their own lives, PAID, have sexual appetite, less likely to want relationship and a bunch of other things.
Tough choice right? There is a thought that young girls are dumb and men only want them because they will listen to anything we say. Some women will say younger men can’t build anything with an older woman and we only want one because they will take care of us financially. Actually, *in my serious voice*, it’s really based on the person. If I don’t limit myself with looks, status, or culture, why would I limit myself with age. One never knows who compliments him. Now I’m not like one of my favorite old school rappers Big Daddy Kane who said he’ll take them “8 to 80, blind, cripple and crazy.” I do have a more realistic minimum and maximum. But that doesn’t mean your daughter in college or your young grandmother is not on the radar. Keep them out of my no fly zone.
If there is a lesson to be learned; the women in their 30s who want a man in his 30s should take some of the good qualities from the PYT and some of the good qualities from the Cougar. This way, she makes herself more versatile. Or, she can always wait till she graduates to a Cougar.
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Good topic.
ReplyDeleteIm surprised that there arent more responses to this post. I think your description of PYTs vs. Cougars was very accurate and I agree that its important to try to posess the qualities of both.
What comes to my mind when addressing this subject is the threat that the one woman poses to the other. The PYT often feels inadequate when the male brings up pop culture events she cant relate to. She wonders if she's smart enough, funny enough, etc. If she's confident, she isnt threatened by other women HER age. However, when it comes to women HIS age, at times she fears she's being left out of an inside joke. She wonders if the older woman is more experienced and more sexually gratifying than she is. And also worries that her post-sex conversation is enough to keep his attention.
We all want to be young forever. While Cougars are usually financially secure and more sexually self-aware, they know their bodies arent what they were at 21. And also, PYTs bring a young, playful zest for life to the relationship that will eventually wear down with age and the trials of living. So while a man can rely on a cougar for emotional support and understanding, there is always the threat that a young, supple body and naive smile will create.
However, not all Cougars are mature or financially stable and not all PYTs are fit and ready for a roll in the hay. I agree that it depends on the man/woman and their needs. Unfortunately, age is less problematic for men. Age doesnt devastate their romantic options.
Younger man vs. Older Man is another story. Lol.
Welcome back Sam!! I think the readers as well as myself have missed you (especially Might D.R.)
ReplyDeleteGreat point. I love harmless competition. Some people dont realize that we all are in competition whether we acknowledge it or not. When a cougar or pyt is dealing with a man, there is a chance that there may be a slight chance of insecurity present. I always say that if I can relate to a person there is a chance that she can be the one. Not only does this apply to race, but also background and age. If my ideal woman has to be versatile in that she is "made for all occasions", she has to be able to hold her own when she is around my friends/ peers. These people are witty, silly, sarcastic, sometimes judgemental, and a whole lot of other chit. The woman's age will be challenged. She better come prepared and unfortunately she cant study for this never ending test. There will be "meeting" next time I get up with my friends to assess her performance. The flipside is that if she doesn't let her age handicap her, she will earn platinum status.
I can breathe again, hi Samantha! I've missed my baby! xoxo
ReplyDeleteI have a sister four years my senior and I always wanted her friends since I was a kid. Perhaps that is why I've always liked older women. The myth of sexual maturity blah blah blah captivated me. That was during my teen years and "roaring twenties." Now that i'm in my "dirty thirties", my feelings have changed. I still like the IDEA of having an older woman, but I don't know if I'd want one. I met an older woman over the summer. Very attractive, body was tight, but she continually harped on the fact that she was older and was somewhat insecure about the age disparity and always brought up the younger "competition." Keep in mind she never told me her age. I guessed she was about 45. Needless to say, our relationship never left the nursing home.
I also, met a special PYT. You know one of them "youngin's" who your mama says, "been here before." She's one of them. More mature than many women my age or older I've dated. AND she is humble to the degree where she says to me, "I know I'm still young and have a lot to learn about life...." Great conversation, intelligent, aims to please and isn't clingy. I might love her. STOP THE PRESS! She's way too young.
Personally, young is fun and old is gold. The most high Honorable Elijah Muhammad, All Praise is Due,said the ideal woman for the black man should be seven years his junior. I think I prefer to stay in the middle.
PS - Banged a 40yr old when I was 27. Sex was VERY regular. The older woman sex myth? BUSTED!
Samantha!!! Welcome back! I missed you girl!
ReplyDeleteI don't have much to add to this topic other than I've never considered cougars to be competition, but I do know the power of a PYT because I've played that role before...
When I was 20, I dealt with a guy who was 12 years my senior and it wasn't about sex like most people thought. We had a great connection, some of the best conversations I've ever had. He looked out for me and gave me the security I needed at the time and in turn, I think I gave him a chance to start over. He realized he had missed a lot of opportunities in life and being with me, he felt like he still had time to make them a reality. Now, I'd like to believe that I am that motivating of a person, but truthfully I know it had a lot to do with my age. Dealing with a younger woman somehow makes a man feel like he has a fresh start in life, they feel youthful again, and that's why PYT's will always be fierce competition. A guy can spend his youthful days being a playa and messing up in life and when it's time to start over, he's gonna find a PYT.
I don't hate on the PYT's though because my experience is that there's something off about the maturity level of the older men who date them and she will eventually out grow him. OR, the man is controlling and is actually looking for a daughter, not a life partner. Either way, both options eventually lead to a breakup.
In the meantime though, PYT's have fun! I sure did and I almost feel like every woman should have that experience.
Apologies for the misquote, the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, All Praise is Due says the ideal age for a woman should be HALF the mans age plus 7.
ReplyDeleteI don't really have much to say... I'm thinking mostly men would weigh in on this topic. now talk to me about picking a young buck vs. a cat daddy, then I can add my 2 cents.
ReplyDeleteI've dated a man (unbeknownst to me) 15+ years my senior, (I was just 15)... BUT OOOOWWWWWEEEE did he look good! but yeah he thought I was just a young, naive tenderoni (correct) that he could just wine and dine on fast food and he'd be able to take my v-card (INcorrect), so I'm always giving a man who's dating someone more than 8 years his junior, the side eye. There's something to be said for a man who prefers ONLY younger women. Is he unable to handle a woman his age? We all like a hard body so dipping in the kiddie pool once in a while is fine and understandable but circling the kiddie pool looking at the guppie ONLY is a problem in my opinion. As for dating a cougar, not all are PAID, but what else are they going to do when the men their age are checking for women the age of their daughters? Hence why I'd like to be married so I don't have to still be playing these games in my golden years.
Thanks Guys:-)
ReplyDeleteEs, does your friends approval matter? What if they judge you?
Mighty D.R, hi! xoxoxo. I think my mama would say you've "been here before." Lol. Jk. Its generous of you to give those ladies a shot. Lucky you. The best of both world simultaneously And I think the equation you provided could work, but only up until a certain age. If the man is 60 and she is 37, how is that supposed to work, right? Lol.
To you both, we're discussing the reasons a man chooses a woman, but after you've chosen to date her, does the age disparity make men insecure at all? Wont there be a fear that you're lacking something?
Lady T, sounds like a great experience! Great post! Maturity issue? Likely. But I wonder if it may be that Men in their thirties are pressured by their counterparts to get married (yesterday), move in, have kids, etc. So, they opt to date PYTs because they have time... Why did you and the Older man split?
Pabvon, heyyyy:-) im with you. I can discuss the Older/Younger man dilemma too. Lol.
Sam, what you said here explains exactly what the maturity issue is... "But I wonder if it may be that Men in their thirties are pressured by their counterparts to get married (yesterday), move in, have kids, etc. So, they opt to date PYTs because they have time"
ReplyDeleteWhy do men see settling down in their thirties as pressure? Women don't even have to hit thirty and the pressure is on. As soon as you hit 25 you might as well put your "ignore plan" together for the infamous questions at family events "So when are you getting married?" "Why are you single?" We can't run from it and we're expected to take it like a champ. So why should pressure be an excuse for men?
I see this just like I see interracial dating. If a black man happens to fall in love with a white women then fine, that's who he loves. But, if he purposely seeks out white women or PYT's then there's a deeper issue, just like Pabvon said.
In all fairness to my older guy, I never intended for it to be anything long term. He presented himself as a playa who couldn't be caught so being the youngin that I was, I saw him as practice to improve my game. Never expected the connection we had nor for him to fall hard for me. But with that aside, I opted out of the relationship because he had a list of goals but no plan of action and being that he'd had that same list for the past 10 years, I didn't trust that he could move forward. I was making moves in life, I felt I was too young to get stuck in his broken cycle.
And, I don't know about Es and Mighty DR but my guy was insecure about men my age. He always had a comment if he saw me talking to one... another reason why it couldn't work.
Insecure. What a word. By no means am I trying to be arrogant, but when I am with a woman I'm not insecure because I feel if we are together, I should have nothing to worry about nor should she. By all means I am well aware of infidelity, but call me naive. Possibly if I was 55 and she was 35, maybe I would think she might want to trade me in for the newer, faster model, but I feel when dating someone with a huge age disparity you should be prepared for such things.
ReplyDeleteAs far as being pressured, that's unfortunately one of the many double standards between men and woman. Marriage is viewed by society as one of the "great milestones" in a persons life as is child bearing. Women have a finite time to conceive and have children. This is why women are "pressured" to get married, have kids etc. Men in their thirties date younger because they may not be ready to settle down or because they can't deal with a woman in their age range. If a 35 year old man who is still living the single life, dates a 35 year old woman who is ready to settle down, they have conflicting interests. Man dates 27 year old who is fine with dating and hasn't been bitten by the marriage bug yet. All parties are happy except lonely 35 year old woman ready to jump the broom.
*kicks dirt and hangs head* I don't wanna date a 50 year old!!!! Just b/c I want to get married! This is one big cruel joke!
ReplyDeletePause did I just spazz out? hahahaha smh
Hey Shero! :), Lady T, Fellas...
Hey Pabvon! *Waves* Don’t feel bad about spazzing out cause dating a 50 yr old is a scary thought.
ReplyDelete@Mighty DR – I hear your point, I really do, but you just left our 35 year old sistahs with no hope and I can’t allow that. Smh! I know society has conditioned us to think that women mature faster than men, therefore men should date younger women, but I think for a man to still use that theory at 35+ is just a cop out. You said “Men in their thirties date younger because they may not be ready to settle down or because they can't deal with a woman in their age range.” I’ll give a temporary pass to the men in their early thirties, because as stated men do mature slower, but if you’re 35+ why aren’t you ready to settle down??? What exactly is stopping you from stepping to the plate and dealing with a woman your age? And, please don’t tell me it’s cause you got options and you can still make babies and yada yada yada. I want to hear real reasons that don’t blame the woman. If you haven’t figured out life by 35 will you ever? And then if you date a PYT will you add to her life or will you just be holding her back cause the real issue is YOU can’t get YOURSELF together???
The reason why I told the PYT’s to have fun with their old men is because if they don’t take it as a learning experience and then keep it moving, they will eventually be the 35 yr old who’s lonely and eager to jump the broom as Mighty DR described. Men who are afraid to settle down have only mastered one thing, THE ART OF STEALING YEARS. The majority of our 35 yr old single sistahs are not single because of the mistakes they made in their thirties. They’re single cause they wasted years with some dude in their twenties and now it’s taking even more years to bounce back. Dating the PYT doesn’t resolve anything. It just starts the cycle all over again.
So Mighty, and Es too, without pointing fingers at the woman, please give us some reasons for why a man cannot handle dating a woman his age.
SIDE NOTE: I’m not against men dating younger women. I do think a 3-5 year age difference is very healthy. My comments are in reference to men who date wider than that age gap because they feel it gives them more time.
Lady T,
ReplyDeleteI cant say for sure, but I dont think our guys are PYT predators. Lol. They seem to be equal opportunity. But dont get me wrong, I know men like the ones you mentioned. They have Peter Pan complexes. They wanna be forever young. Lol.
There's a guy I know, who will sleep with women his age, but only wife up females 10 years younger. He's super competitive and wants to have the "baddest" gf of all his friends. He's the ultimate qualified bachelor: gorgeous, financially well off, family oriented, generous, intelligent (2 Masters degrees), but absolutely will not deal with any woman his age on anything more than a booty call level. He's slightly controlling, which makes younger women the perfect option for him. He's manipulative, very spoiled (if you get to know him well), and dominant. In his eyes, women his age have less to offer than younger women. Not to mention, he under no circumstances will date anyone with children, because he wants children of his own.
The kicker is, that he finally found a girlfriend who more than met his requirements (young, beautiful, successful) and lost her due to infidelity/various mental abuse. Her innocence was stolen, she's aged drastically since meeting him. He's been saving himself this whole time for this perfect woman, and has recently impregnated a local bar slore. So much for his plans. Now he's reluctantly starting to date women his age. And sadly, they are actually giving him time.
So, I feel you. Cases like those are tragic. I could say that he would've eventually settled down with a younger woman who met his needs and he wouldve lived happily ever after, because that was what he wanted. But, some men just dont know what they want. Someone who is not whole on the inside, cannot complete a half of a relationship, no matter the partner.
Fresh start in life, lmao, I dont know about that one. At least not for me, but I see your point Lady T. You make it seem like PYT's are easy to attain, the good ones are a challenge just like any other woman.
ReplyDeletePabvon you were a pre-PYT also known as illegal. And for me, age has nothing to do with handling. If that were the case, PYTs are very difficult to handle for numerous reasons. And I'm not dating a cougar unless shes paid. Thats a requirement. Judge me!
Sam, no ones approval matters but mine. And I'm always judged so I welcome it. But it is fun when the girl you are with is accepted by you homies or family. Makes game night much easier to get through.
37 is not old, so when I'm 60, that may be ideal. So the rule still works.
For some men, I'm sure insecurity comes in at some point. If she's younger a guy may tend to want to relate as much as possible, but hopefully she accepts your age and allows you to be yourself. There are some great PYTs out there. The ones that have been here before like DR said.
No matter the age, men see settling down as pressure unless they are the ones pushing it. And since when is there a problem with seeking what you want. White or young, if thats what a guy likes, why shouldnt he pursue that. Wanting a challenge doesn't work for everyone.
Worried about other men only applies to certain men. Not to me. If she likes me, thats all I'm concerned about. I cant worry about how many other guys are coming at her. Thats life.
Since when is setttling down synonymous with figuring out life. And since when should there be an age to settle down. If I got married at 21 someone will say thats too young. What I eat doesn't make the next person chit.
Bad wording of your question Lady T. "Cant handle dating a woman his age." I dont know what "handle" means. Like I said, ideally I would rather have someone my age. From the outside it seems to be a less stessful situation. But I will not wife a woman just because she's my age. I guess I'm not qualified to answer that question.
Lady T,
ReplyDeleteYou asked ES and I take on why men don't date women their own age and honestly, I want to plagiarize Samanthas response. Lol, no bullsh*t she nailed it. But, If I may add on without tarnishing her post, men are gamblers and suffer from the "maybe the grass is greener" syndrome. We are in search for that perfect 10, that doesn't exist, and we let great 8, 9, 9.5's slip through our fingers for the elusive dime piece. I'm not just talking looks, I mean as in total package.
Peter Pan syndrome, immature, playa from the Himalaya whatever you dub it. No matter the age, if a man isn't ready he can't be forced. My dad married my mom at 28 and said he was done. I asked. I spoke to his brother and he said, "your dad was always like that. one girlfriend and that's it. I had 5 and 6 at a time. have as many girlfriends as you want." I say that to to say, its a case by case basis and you have to find a like minded guy who like you is ready to settle down.
A few of my college homies are married and their wives are the same age as them. So I don't think its a matter of a man being able to handle a woman his age, its a matter of him acknowledging the grass is not greener and cultivating the lawn he already has.
Im going to say this because I think its what some are thinking in general when it comes to this matter, not necessarily on this post. It happens to be true.
ReplyDeleteThe older a woman gets, the more bulls*** she brings along with her. By 35, a woman has already had more than her share of bad relationships, self-esteem/image issues, she's probably out of shape, and may have a kid or two (or three), plus an a**hole of a baby father. Men have their own stuff they come with but are experts on minimilizing the effects it creates on their lives. We drag allllllll our ish with us and expect him to be some knight in shining amour who is so enthalled by our unique and irreplacable personality, that he willingly and happily takes on the load, for the chance that we may be "the one." A load which we've created for ourselves due to poor judgement.
Sounds wrong, but some women allow life to beat on them and by the time they reach 35, they are damaged goods. Why should a man settle for that? When he can have someone who is still fairly innocent and still excited about life. Someone who's going to look up to him a little, admire him, be excited by just being around him, etc.
Not all 35 year old women are damaged goods, but most that I know are and some young women are too. However, the longer she's gone through the bull****, the greater the chance that she's lost her joy and the means by which to acheive it.
@ Samantha, that's why you're a fan favorite and my baby.
ReplyDeleteI honestly didn't even take into account all of which you said, but geez you again nailed it.
Going forward you can address questions to ES, myself and Samantha for bipartisan support. LOL!
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ReplyDeleteSo much to respond to, where to start...
ReplyDeleteFirst, let me clarify... I didn’t mean to imply that Es and Mighty DR are PYT Predators. Nothing they’ve said has given me that impression. I posed the question to them because they are the consistent male voices on this blog. The guy that Samantha described is who I was really questioning, but I wanted to hear Es and Mighty’s take on it.
And, I said “can’t handle” a woman because I thought I was quoting Mighty DR, but I looked back and he actually said “can’t DEAL with a woman in their age range.” To me they both mean that there’s something about the situation that the man can’t tolerate but I could be wrong. Mighty, how did you mean it?
@Mighty – Thanks for your response. Didn't mean to seem like I was attacking you. I guess it is as simple as you say it is “the grass is greener.”
@Es – For your question of how is settling down synonymous with figuring out life... If you listen to Steve Harvey, Hill Harper and other male figures out there trying to explain the male mind to women, they all make it seem like a man will not settle down until he has his life figured out. His career, his finances, his independence etc will top settling down until he has it all figured out. I think Steve Harvey has a whole chapter in his book dedicated to it. Do you disagree with what they’re saying?
@Sam – You said “Men have their own stuff they come with but are experts on minimilizing the effects it creates on their lives.” This is soooo untrue. Men do burden women with their issues but rarely will they ever ADMIT that they do. That’s the only difference between the way that men and women handle their baggage. The type of woman a man desires, what he expects from her and the way he treats her are directly related to the man’s issues. Maybe you were fortunate to escape a man’s wrath but I lived in it growing up and I dealt with it in a past relationship. Everyone’s baggage affects who they are. When you love someone and you are your true self around them, you’re not pretending anymore and you’re giving the real you, there is no minimalizing. Everything is out on the table that goes for men and women.
The example of what your friend did to the young girl proves that men don’t minimalize the effects of their issues, as a matter of fact he projected them. He found the “perfect” girl yet he still couldn’t stay faithful, now unfortunately his baggage has become hers. This girl now has potential to be the 35 year old damaged goods woman you described. This is how the cycle repeats itself.
And Sam, although I hear what you’re saying, I don’t think it’s fair to say that those “damaged goods” women allow life to beat on them. Yes, we are all responsible for keeping our bitterness to a minimum, but when you’ve wanted a family your whole life and society makes you feel like your value is decreasing with each tick of the clock, it’s pretty hard to stay positive 24/7. Being single at 35 is a real, genuine concern if you want children. I don’t think a woman should allow it to cloud her judgment making her extra bitter, pushy or desperate with men, but I think it is more complicated than saying she allowed life to beat on her. She’s facing the possibility of never being a mother. That’s a fear men don’t really have to deal with.
I don’t know guys... I realize that I did change the topic slightly but I feel we need to offer solutions to our community. This conversation doesn’t help us if we can’t offer some advice or some hope to the women 35 and over. Right now, the option of PYTs contribute to older women being deemed “damaged goods” but it doesn’t have to be that way. I know we can’t change the fact that women have clocks and men don’t but there has to be some way to encourage dating within our age group so that everyone has a chance... Sigh!! Maybe I’m dreaming. Feel free to tell me I’ve lost sight of reality and my head is in the clouds right now. LOL!
@Lady T: Lol. I was just making fun when I said "PYT predators". Lol. I knew u didnt imply that. And the guy I described who is constantly dating someone a generation and a half younger than him... I question him too.
ReplyDeleteAnd you're right. Not every woman placed herself in a position to be beat on by life, it just happens sometimes. But I think some of us do alot of it to ourselves and, unfortunately, our mistakes have lasting effects (emotional and otherwise) that stay with us for a lonnnng time. Everyone should have a chance. I put myself in the guys' shoes because I see men that way. If I feel like like demands a lot less from me than it does him, or his bagagge is unreasonably heavier than mine, I wouldnt see him as a potential life partner.
Great comments everyone... I just happened to browse back and see if there were any new comments and there darn near a whole new blog topic!
ReplyDeleteI appreciate putting in perspective "The grass is greener theory" that oddly calms any panic one may feel *cough ME* when thinking about dating someone who isn't sounding like they know what they want from OUR relationship. But not falling prey to "the grass is greener" antics would be having confidence in you and knowing yourself worth.
My only question is, do or should we always "bail" at the first sight of a man "pussy footing" and if so will we EVER settle down. B/c like we all agree baggage comes with us and as the years pass the bigger the bag.
*counting on fingas* Ummm.....what's half of 35, plus 7?
ReplyDelete